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Sprache (Language) / Nationalität (Nationality) / Religion ?

 
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Andy



Joined: 08 Mar 2004
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Location: Zürich

 PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 1:24 am    Post subject: Sprache (Language) / Nationalität (Nationality) / Religion ? Reply with quote Back to top

Ich habe mir schon vor längerer Zeit einmal Gedanken darüber gemacht, was die zwischenmenschliche Beziehungen am stärksten festigt. Ist es die Sprache, die Nationaliät oder die Religion?

Hierzu ein passendes Beispiel:
Angenommen, es treffen sich zwei Personen. Wann stimmt die Chemie am besten? Wenn beide folgendes haben:

Arrow gleiche Sprache, gleiche Nationalität aber unterschiedliche Religionen?
Arrow gleiche Sprache, gleiche Religion aber unterschiedliche Nationalitäten?
Arrow gleiche Religion, gleiche Nationalität aber sprechen keine gemeinsame Sprache?

----------------------------------

For already a long time I'm thinking about the thing, that strengthens human relations very much. Is it the language, the nationality or the religion?

For this a suitable exemple:
Let's say two persons meet each other. When will they get along with each other? If both have:

Arrow same language, same nationality but different religions?
Arrow same language, same religion but different nationalities?
Arrow same religion, same nationality but don't speak a common language?


What do you think?
 
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Andy



Joined: 08 Mar 2004
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Location: Zürich

 PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 1:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Eine Sprache lässt sich erlernen. Unter diesem Aspekt wäre sicher der 3. Punkt am besten, da nach einer gewissen Zeit alles gemeinsam wäre, Nationalität, Religion und auch die Sprache.

Dies bedingt jedoch eine gewisse Zeit. Interessant ist jedoch vor allem der erste Moment, wenn zwei Menschen aufeinander treffen. Aus diesem Grund soll angenommen werden, dass die beiden Personen unter Punkt 3 keine gemeinsame Sprache sprechen, bzw. wenn, dann nur mit sehr geringem Wortschatz.


Everyone can learn a language. That's why the 3rd point must be the best one, because after a certain time they will have all of them common, nationality, religion and also the language.

But to learn a language requires plenty of time. It's more interesting to see, what will happen in the first moments, when two persons meet each other. So, let's say, that in the 3rd exemple the two persons don't speak a commun language, or if, then with only a small vocabulary.

 
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iminhokis
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 PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Im ersten Effekt, Antwort B
Im zweiten, Antwort A
Im dritten Antwort C

Und ganz am Ende ist es nicht wirklich zu sagen, da es letztenlich immer auch auf die Chemie und die Umstände akommt.

Es ist zum Beispiel unterschiedlich, wenn man sich irgendwo befindet wo man B zur Fülle hat oder nicht. Auch die Umgebung- ist man weither der eigenenKultur, Sprache, Religion oder nation, so sucht und liebt man alles dasa uch nur angehend zum einen oder anderen passt.

Aber erfahrungsgemäss ist es für mich persönlich so, dass wenn ich meine Sprache mit jemandem teilen kann, ich sehr viel schneller mich auf "familiäre" Art verbunden fühle. Wie gesagt- der erste Effekt...., wobei die anderen nicht auszuschliessen sind.
 
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Sarkisoff



Joined: 17 Nov 2003
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 PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Nicht zu vergessen, in erster Linie sind der Respekt, Achtung und die Toleranz die zu einer Verständigung als Schlüssel beitragen. Denn wen man diese nicht hervorbringen kann, nützt es dann auch nichts wenn man die gleiche Sprache, gleiche Kultur und die gleiche Umgebung teilt - obwohl hier in diesem Bsp.eigentlich alle Voraussetzungen unter idealen Bedingungen wären.

Für mich selber waren es nie Kriterien oder Umstände für eine Verständigung wie die oben erwähnten Punkte, vielleicht auch deshalb nicht, da ich zwischen zwei Kulturen stehe. Natürlich ist es leichter mit jemandem zu kommunizieren wenn man die gleiche Sprache spricht. Aber ich denke man merkt selber eben sehr schnell ob eine "innere Verbindung" stattfinden kann oder nicht.

Mehr Meinungen? Wink
 
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jgm1975



Joined: 16 Jul 2004
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 PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

In terms of actual cases, it depends on the values that a society lives by. For example, since secularism is dominant in the West, religion is less dominant than language. Belgium is predominantly Catholic, yet the language issue is a source of division. In the US, the idea of being American is about standing for a way of life, so nationality is a factor there. It is up to a society to decide how it perceives itself and what values it espouses.

From a personal point of view, if one looks at things rationally, religion and nationality would not be factors. Religion is man's image of God, an attempt to put human characteristics on the spiritual world that is invisible to the five senses. It is like someone pointing his finger to the moon. He may point to the moon, but he does not give you the moon. He is only showing his finger. Nationality is strictly artificial. There is no such thing as Italian blood, or Spanish blood, etc. There are only 8 types of blood among humans (A, AB, B, O; with or without + for each). Also, borders are artificial, so that can be dismissed as well. But language is what makes humans...human. When the ancestor of man started to master speech, that is when he ceased to be an ape-like creature and became a man. Language is what allows humans to express and exchanges feelings and relate to one another. Naturally, if two people do not speak the same language, they do not understand each other and can not share experiences, feelings, thoughts and emotions, and thus they can not bond. So I would have to give the edge to language.
 
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Anahit



Joined: 02 Aug 2004
Posts: 6
Location: China

 PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I think the biggest barrier to overcome between people, is the religious one. As already mentioned above, one can always learn a language, and the nationality doesn’t really matter, specially now, when more and more people are just mixed.
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iminhokis
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 PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Well Anahit I think at this place we should mention how you met us.
coming from China via France to Geneva, beeing Armenian and finding a group of fool Armenians in the middle of 500'000 of people dancing at the Lake Parade of Geneva.


Would you have found us, if we did not have the little flag on our faces and speaking Armenian? Wink

 
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 PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

A very nice photo!

Actually I found you, JUST because of the little flag on your faces: I was walking around you quite a while, trying to catch an armenian word, but I didn’t Sad So once again I can say, that the language really doesn’t matter (some couldn’t speak Armenian, but I enjoyed talking to them in other language and will be soooooo happy to meet them again!).
 
iminhokis
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 PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

ok
then vive the flags on our sweet faces
lol
 
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Andy



Joined: 08 Mar 2004
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Location: Zürich

 PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 3:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Thanx a lot, friends, for your interesting answers. It seems that no general answer can be found. It's like jumping from one solution to the other, as Tamar wrote in the begining of her first post. I also felt the same way, when I was thinking about that topic.

It seems that it depends very much on the kind of "connection" we want to get with the other person...
 
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Andy



Joined: 08 Mar 2004
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 PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 3:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Let's say, you are in a pub, sitting together with 3 other persons. Everyone of them has different properties (let's say A, B, C), like written in the first post.

So, with which person will you talk the most part of the evening?

I think, it will be the one who understands your language and has the same religion.

But also the one who understands your language and has the same nationality, but different kind of religion will be a good companion to talk with. With that one, you can talk about "your" country, and also about the differences in religions.


But, is it the same, when you are "looking for" somebody to life with?

Then, the one with another religion has absolutely no chance (in most cases).

The one with same language and same religion will be the one, we are able to talk with and to find out, if there is "something" for a relationship or not.

The one, who doesn't speak the same language but has the same religion and nationality, might be "more" interesting, but what to do, when nothing is there to exchange ideas, experiences, feelings...



So it really depends on the situation. For me, the LANGUAGE is a very important thing! BUT: For more than just "small talk" the RELIGION is as important as the LANGUAGE and much more important than NATIONALITY.
 
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iminhokis
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 PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

well you are talkign about Nationality or about Origin?
Only few of us, Armenians here, have the same Nationality as Origin Wink
Therefore you are right, Nationality has no influence. But Origin has.
 
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Andy



Joined: 08 Mar 2004
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Location: Zürich

 PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

iminhokis wrote:
well you are talkign about Nationality or about Origin?
Only few of us, Armenians here, have the same Nationality as Origin Wink
Therefore you are right, Nationality has no influence. But Origin has.


Right, I wasn't precise enough, but with nationality I meant rather the origin... (like Armenia for us).

But do you think you feel more attracted to one with the same origin (let's say an Armenian) but with different religion... or to someone who has not the same origin (let's say a Greek) but the same religion...?

I think, origin has a very strong influence, but not as strong as religion (provided that both really life their religion... for atheists it's clear, religion has no meaning).
 
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iminhokis
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 PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I never met a muslim or jewish Armenian yet.
Thus, I cant really answer the question.
It would certainly be very strange.


But I have a friend who is converted to Buddism, she is 200% Armenian.
And I dont feel ANY DIFFERENCE, she is Armenian, we talk in Armenian, dance & sing in Armenian, eat armenian and have fun.
 
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Hrant



Joined: 17 Nov 2003
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 PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 6:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Sprache (Language) / Nationalität (Nationality) / Religi Reply with quote Back to top

Andy wrote:
For already a long time I'm thinking about the thing, that strengthens human relations very much. Is it the language, the nationality or the religion?

For this a suitable exemple:
Let's say two persons meet each other. When will they get along with each other? If both have:

Arrow same language, same nationality but different religions?
Arrow same language, same religion but different nationalities?
Arrow same religion, same nationality but don't speak a common language?


What do you think?



Very interesting question Andy,

In fact in a sphere of having new frineds, these values mentioned above have the following queue for me:

1. Nationality,
2. Language,
3. Religion

The "ideal" should be of course when one has all 3 points, but in other cases, for me, personally, when one is Armenian, then he/she has more chances to be closer to me then the others, because most of all we see the values (Armenian things) in same way, and for having frineds you need to have more then only one common value (mentality, the way of thinking, common values to contend for etc).

When the person has the same Mother-Tongue as me the communication is easier, because there are many things, feelings, impressions, expressions, ideas and many others that is very hard or almost impossible to impress in any other language that you know. These are the nuances of language that person is bestly common with when it is his/her Mother-Tongue.

I met both and muslim Armenians and jewish Armenians. I can say that in both cases I had no as negative feelings of separated (in worst case could be also the disgust, contempt etc) as I could have in case if they are not Armenians.

After all of this I can assume as well that friendship (for single cases could be even the best) is also widely possible in between of the persons who don't have common of noone of these values (religion, language, nationality).

As you said before - everything depends on situation!


And as for marriage, Andy, for me there is no any other circumstances - She ought to be Christian, Armenian, speaking Armenian (I'll never even imagine how the language inside of my family can be other than Armenian wherever I live)!! Wink
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